Diplomacy, Diversity, and Dialogue at the U.S. Embassy to Israel
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Diplomacy, Diversity, and Dialogue at the U.S. Embassy to Israel


Samantha Sutton, a 2022 Service to America Medals® Emerging Leader finalist and current Political Advisor for the United States Mission to the United Nations, shares her story of working in diplomacy as a career civil servant who started as an intern with the State Department. Sutton has worked on Middle East peace issues across three different presidential administrations and has provided important continuity during transitions to advance peace in the region. Sutton joined Profiles in Public Service from Israel where she was most recently serving as chief of staff to Ambassador Tom Nides, alongside Fred Wilson, the U.S. Embassy to Israel’s first chief diversity officer. Wilson led efforts to encourage greater dialogue among senior leaders, embassy staff, and the diverse communities Mission Jerusalem works alongside. Sutton and Wilson discuss their accomplishments and challenges working on the Israel-Palestinian conflict as well as their suggestions for emerging leaders interested in pursuing international relations and diplomacy work through the federal government. 

This episode is the fourth of four highlighting some of our 2022 Service to America Medals® finalists. Nominate an outstanding public servant for a 2023 Sammies medal today through our nomination form

Tune in on November 23rd at 8 pm on Bloomberg Television and the Partnership’s YouTube Channel linked in our show notes.

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Loren DeJonge Schulman:  From the Partnership for Public Service, this is Profiles in Public Service—a podcast that shares the stories of the public servants who work on our behalf every day to make our country safer, healthier and more prosperous.  I’m Loren DeJonge Schulman,  

Rachel Klein-Kircher: And I’m Rachel Klein-Kircher.  This is our last episode in our 2022 Sammies series here on Profiles in Public Service where we have been highlighting some of our incredible 2022 Service to America Medals finalists.  

From Rupa Bhattacharya, who transformed the 9/11 Victim Compensation Fund to support those facing long-term impacts from the terrorist attacks on September 11th.

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  

To Suma Nair, who took the lead on distributing lifesaving supplies to community health centers across the country during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Rachel Klein-Kircher: To Craig McLean, whose decades of service exploring the deep ocean have helped us better understand climate change and predict major changes in weather! 

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  

We have heard incredible stories from some of this year’s Sammies finalists who truly demonstrate the diversity of opportunities that exist in the federal government to make a positive difference. If you haven’t already, tune in to some of our most recent episodes from this series to hear from leaders who have taken on enormous challenges across the federal government. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher: For our last 2022 Sammies series episode, we are excited to be joined by Sam Sutton, one of our finalists in the Emerging Leaders category. This medal recognizes federal employees under the age of 35 who have made an important contribution to public service early in their professional career. 

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  As a career civil servant who started as an intern with the State Department, Sam has worked on Middle East peace issues across three different presidential administrations and has provided important continuity during transitions to advance peace in the region. She joined us for an interview from Israel where she is serving as chief of staff to Ambassador Tom Nides.  

Rachel Klein-Kircher: We are also joined by Fred Wilson, a former colleague of Sam’s, who most recently served as the U.S. Embassy to Israel’s first Chief Diversity Officer. 

Welcome Sam and Fred! 

Transition Music

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  Sam, easy first question for you, and we ask it of almost everyone that joins our show: what inspired you to pursue a career in public service, and particularly in foreign policy?  

Sam Sutton:  It’s a good question, and frankly, I don’t have the typical, you know, “when I was young, I always dreamed of working for the government and inform policy.” My dad’s a dentist and my mom was a nurse. It wasn’t something that I grew up sort of living and breathing. The first time I went to Washington, D.C. I actually went to Georgetown for undergrad, and the first time I went to D.C. was my first day of college, which I really hate to admit but… 

Loren DeJonge Schulman: That’s amazing.  

Sam Sutton:  It wasn’t something that was, you know, ingrained in me since I was a child, but it’s something that now I could never imagine not working for the government and you know, dedicating myself to public service. 

When I was in college, I did Semester at Sea, which is actually like you do a semester of college going around the world and you just visit 12 countries and just circum-navigated the globe. And I think that’s really where I got the bug for, first of all, being so proud to be an American and sort of espousing democratic values and sort of what America’s all about, but also experiencing different cultures. And it sounds cliche, but that was sort of my first real experience. And then from there, I subsequently went to graduate school, and then parlayed that into working at the State Department.  

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  So, one of your first experiences in government, I think, was an internship at the State Department, and it is actually pretty rare now for people to go from an internship and into a long-term career in public service in some way. What drew you to that first internship at State and how did you transition from that into a full-time position? 

Sam Sutton:  So, I actually was in graduate school, I interned at the State Department. It was a three-month internship and then that internship ended, and I did not get a job. I was already past the point of when people would, you know, it was lore that you could get a job after interning. 

I knew that I couldn’t lose the momentum, so I scrounged online to find opportunities with actual like consulting or I guess contracting firms that have contracts with the department. So that’s actually how I slid in. I had a small gap. I ended my internship in December, and then by February I came in with the contracting firm, which is much easier. 

And it was an office, it was a global partnership, which is frankly not something that I was super passionate about, but it was a way to keep my foot in the door. And, you know, I stayed in that office for about a little bit less than a year, and then I transitioned from there into the Office of Israeli-Palestinian Negotiations and into a more permanent slot. But I was a contractor for a bit there. 

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  And so this is actually a great context point because there are literally thousands of contractors across the U.S. government, who are supporting or enabling or empowering and other kinds of roles across agencies. And you will run into them in various forms, whether at the State Department or Department of Defense or elsewhere, where you are yourself acting as a civil servant and you have a peer or a colleague who is offering expert support or something else as a contractor and all part of the big kind of public service family. You talked about, you know, going from there over to the Office of the Israeli-Palestinian Negotiations. How long have you been serving? How long were you serving in that team? How did you kind of move up the ranks in that role? 

Sam Sutton: So I served on that team for almost four years, up until the end of the Obama administration. So I came in sort of at the bottom. The guy who was tasked to be the Chief of Staff was my adjunct professor in grad school and we had sort of stayed in touch, which is the classic D.C. 

Loren DeJonge Schulman: Totally classic D.C.  

Sam Sutton: Totally.  

Loren DeJonge Schulman: That’s great.  

Sam Sutton:  Yeah. So we stayed in touch and then he pulled me on and he actually pulled me on through the Pathways Program, which is a great way to get into the civil service. And I started off as like a staff assistant and then went sort of just being a special assistant. And then by the end was like a deputy Chief of Staff and a communications director. That was throughout the duration of Secretary Kerry’s time at the State Department.  

Rachel Klein-Kircher:  So Sam, you’re telling us about your career from, you know, day one as an intern or even prior to that, you know, your first trip to D.C. Now, where you are in your career and all that you’ve seen as a senior political advisor with the U.S. Mission to the United Nations and now Chief of Staff to the U.S. Ambassador to Israel. 

Is there a particular enormous challenge that you had to face that stands out for you during your career that you can discuss with us and how did you handle it? 

Sam Sutton:  Yeah. I think some of the biggest challenges just as I’ve sort of worked on is real Palestinian issues over the past three administrations. Particularly navigating this issue and the conflict under the previous administration. 

And I think I feel comfortable saying that their approach to the issue was vastly different than any U.S. foreign policy since the creation of the state of Israel and, you know, since 1948 and before. So I think there were some real, and this is something I articulated to those that I worked under and you know, as a civil servant and then as a career person, you sort of, if you don’t leave, even if you disagree with some of the views of the administration, I find it sort of incumbent on you to stand up for what you think is right. But then at the end of the day, you follow what the policy is, even if that’s not what you would have chosen. 

So, for example, one of the things was our funding to the Palestinians. And we stopped all of it during the previous administration. Myself and colleagues sort of put forward why we thought it was not a good idea to do this, and it was very emotional. 

 At the end of the day, the leadership decided to cease all the funding, and we had to be the ones – particularly I was at the UN at the time and a lot of the funding was UN funding – and we had to be the face of that and to maintain those relationships through such a trauma, but then come out the other end. 

And I, you know, still have these relationships with those diplomats and the Palestinian diplomats, in particular, now. So, I think that was a very challenging time and some challenging experiences. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher:  You’ve touched on a pretty big question we often get in some of our leadership development classes across government, and there’s this question of how do you relay information that you yourself may not agree with? And I feel, Sam, you’ve put this extra element on it because these are people with whom you personally need to continue to maintain relationships in order to do your job. 

So what advice would you give to somebody who asked that question, or to what would you attribute the success that you had and the steps that you took? 

Sam Sutton: So, yeah, I mean, I don’t know if I was successful, but I think it really was us at the UN, we really were the face of many of these things. You walk across the street and you see everyone every day, and you have to represent these policies. I think it’s a very, very difficult needle to thread to continue to represent the U.S. policy because that is my job and that is your job as a career person. But to also, at the same time, these colleagues know that that is not probably what Sam Sutton believes. It’s very difficult and it’s challenging and I think it’s not for the faint of heart, but I think people who are passionate, and I have so many colleagues that are and that sort of stuck with it. And these are the people that sort of remain the backbone of the institution, I think, at the State Department and other government agencies that sort of can navigate these changes of policy.  

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  You are highlighting something that I think can be challenging for those outside the foreign policy community to understand, that how much of it in practice is about relationships, relationship building and relationship management. Particularly when it comes, but not exclusively, but particularly when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and relationship. 

So many of the people that have been working in this from all parties have been doing this over the course of their careers and have known each other for a long time, have been in the same circuits, have lived in the same areas, have been going to similar meetings. So, helping to facilitate that ongoing relationship, which can be very high conflict across administrations, is just an amazing feat that U.S. diplomats have to do all the time, every time we have a transition. I wonder if you might expand on that a little bit about how you and your colleagues help provide that kind of stable leadership and steady connectivity across three administrations that are, at the end of the day, quite different. Even with their continuities, they are still different. 

How do you continue to facilitate dialogue with all of that change going on, knowing that policies may be very different from one day to the next?  

Sam Sutton:  It’s very challenging. One thing that’s important to remember and I think it’s important for all diplomats, is you really have to be able to put yourself in other people’s shoes. I ask that of the diplomats that I deal with, and I try to do the same and sort of understand why folks are approaching us a certain way. 

So particularly during, you know, an administration where the policies are just vastly different than the administration before, I sort of, in my conversations with other diplomats, would ask for a certain amount of understanding and empathy. And the good diplomats, you know, we can sort of connect on that level. 

 The one thing that I like to point to though is despite how fraught the relationship under the previous administration became with the Palestinians, and I like to take credit for this, but it was not just me. Ambassador Kelly Craft, who was our ambassador to the UN, was invited to the West Bank, to Bethlehem at the end of her tenure, at the end of the administration. And so I went with her. It was like the height of COVID. We probably shouldn’t have gone, but myself and other colleagues sort of helped her foster and preserve a relationship with the Palestinian ambassador to the UN despite all of the factors that, you know, we released our peace plan, we weren’t funding anymore. And she was the first administration official to go there following the announcement of Jerusalem as a capital of Israel. So that was something that I like to point to. It was not me, but it was significant because she was welcome to Bethlehem, which was sort of baffling to many, given how fraught the relationship with that administration was.  

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  That particular element is another thing that I think can be baffling to people not in foreign policy, that even when you’re in a high tension moment that’s very stressful, or there seems to be a lot of areas of disagreement, the need for continuity of dialogue and visits and meetings and engagement, even when you know that there’s going to be 1% of things that are actually going to go well and 99% of the rest are going to be problematic. I think people ask that all the time, but like, why do we continue to have relationships with this country or to have meetings with that one? But maybe in a somewhat less fraught recent meeting that you helped facilitate when President Biden was in the Middle East, can you tell us a little bit about the process for helping to prepare for such a visit? What is that like to welcome the enormous infrastructure when the president comes to town and help prepare for that as he is trying to go about all of his diplomatic and other business?  

Sam Sutton:  The amount of work and manpower that goes into a presidential visit is really remarkable. It’s an all of embassy [effort] and we have a massive embassy out here and Office of Palestinian Affairs. Everyone has to work. You have people managing everything, from the hotels to the airport. Then we had the element of the West Bank. So you’re dealing with the Israelis and the Palestinians.  

It was an enormous amount of work. And then a team comes in that’s made up of volunteers and White House advance and the Secretary’s advance because he also was on the visit. And so we do countless walkthroughs. It’s really a tremendous amount of effort, but I think in the end it was, personally I think the ambassador would say the same thing, a really successful trip. 

 And the president was just, you know, it was amazing to see how much he was welcomed here in Israel and really how despite whatever one might think from past administration to this administration, it was really a tremendous visit. And the Israelis, I think, really solidified how strong the relationship is. 

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  Just as a quick aside, in my past jobs, I’ve traveled with the President before and it’s always amazing to see just how much stuff you bring, like in terms of number of cars for the motorcade or helicopters or anything else like that. It’s just a remarkable feat to see all of this follow you from country to country, and space to space. 

So this is one of those moments you are like, Oh wow, America is a quite unique power around the world. When other people visit the United States or elsewhere, it is not like this in terms of what you end up taking with you. I will not reminisce on that because I’ll go on for forever so I’ll turn back to you, Rachel. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher:  Thanks Loren. So Sam, you alluded to just how massive the U.S. Embassy is in Israel, so I’d like to turn to Fred now. You were most recently leading and co-leading diversity initiatives at the U.S. Embassy to Israel. Can you tell us what did you do in the role and how did you work in partnership with Sam and with the Ambassador team?  

Frederick Wilson:  Before Sam arrived, we had a diversity inclusion council that was pretty strong. But as everything can get a little better, we were able to, through the help of Sam, we were able to get a meeting with the ambassador who was very interested in what we had to say. 

And essentially said, “Hey, Sam, can you work with these people? And let’s help them be stronger.” And what came out of that meeting is our mission needed a Diversity Officer, a Chief Diversity Officer. Sam is just one of those people who just comes out with so much energy and was like, Who’s going to be that person? Who’s going to be that person? And Sam was like, Of course you are.  

It was amazing and hilarious. I started, I guess, my journey on diversity inclusion back in 2013, I think. And I had quite a bit of experience doing it. So it was a lot of responsibility, but it was a great time. I was able to do it for only a few months because we had to leave post. But what we were able to accomplish was we were at the forefront of starting something real for the Mission. We were getting in front of Mission leadership and talking about how to interact with people who are different. We have Mission Israel, as probably we all know, is just extremely diverse religiously, culturally, and it’s just an amazing place to be. 

So seeing leaders sort of have to start thinking differently about how they approach how to be more welcoming to these groups of difference was just amazing. And that meeting with the ambassador I think would’ve gone very differently if we didn’t have the little person in the room named Sam Sutton because she just comes in with energy and you can sort of feed off of it and the ambassador reacted to it as well. So it was a really comfortable meeting, which I’ve sat with other ambassadors, and that was probably one of the more comfortable meetings I’ve ever sat with. So it was a great experience. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher:  And you said you’ve been engaged with this type of work since 2013, so was there something that was very different for you, trying to instill or implement practices at this embassy versus earlier work? Or was there something surprising or a different type of challenge that you saw? 

Frederick Wilson: For me, it was the pace. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher: Hmm. Say more about that. 

Frederick Wilson:  The pace of being in an embassy is very different. Some embassies are very agile. Some like Mission Jerusalem is large, very, very large. So pushing initiatives takes time and with people located in multiple cities, it was just, oh, I’m speaking to these people. Of course this message is going to get through and I guess before the Chief Diversity Officer role, we would send stuff up to leadership and sometimes get something back.  

Once I was in that role, and saying things during country team [meetings], sharing messages saying, Hey, let’s reposition on this topic or that topic, all of a sudden you would start seeing immediate reaction. And so being empowered as the Chief Diversity Officer allowed a lot more visibility for some of these topics for people who probably just missed some of these messages because they’re so busy, because as Sam alluded earlier, Mission Jerusalem is a very busy mission. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher: Right. And it’s hard to know if you’re sending something one way, if it’s received or not. 

Frederick Wilson: And how it’s received. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher: Exactly. 

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  I mean, this is something where in places like Mission Jerusalem, having the collaboration and support of colleagues who are helping – I hate this term – but grease the skids basically, like create a pathway for you to be able to be heard and to get a response is so important. It’s very much an orchestra of impact and not individuals, though individuals can make such a difference.  

I’d love to ask you both kind of building on that, what accomplishment or experience from your career are you really proud of? And sometimes, I know this can be things like making history in some way and sometimes it’s a matter of like you managed to get that memo on time. What’s something that you are both really proud of from your careers?  

Frederick Wilson:  I will say I am very proud that I was the first Chief Diversity Officer of Mission Jerusalem. Mission Jerusalem is an incredibly diverse place and helping the Mission understand the gravity of the diversity there, helping senior leaders see it, putting senior leaders in the same room with the custodial staff and saying, “Hey, you two should talk. Let’s talk about some of the differences.” I think that for me, it was an amazing experience because leaders try and leaders, for the most part, have great intentions, but they’re missed because you have 20 things to do and you have one hour to do all of it. 

And in this case, in this very busy Mission, me being able to sit and facilitate some of these conversations, me being able to actually have some of these conversations with people who otherwise would’ve never turned around and said hello to me in the hallways and teach them that this is not about putting you, pushing you up against the wall. It’s about welcoming you and teaching you how to welcome other people. I think that experience will go down as probably one of my favorite and most important experiences in Mission Jerusalem.  

Loren DeJonge Schulman: I love that cause it shows how much leadership is not just about giving directive, but creating and facilitating moments.  

Frederick Wilson: Absolutely.  

Loren DeJonge Schulman: You took somebody who was incredibly busy and gave them moments that they could really make an impact in. Sam, what about you?  

Sam Sutton:  I want to build off of what Fred said. I think the ambassador is amazing and he really cares about [Diversity and Inclusion], but he also came from somewhere like a big bank that sort of had the structure of how they would do this and how they would address these issues within their system. 

And I think exposing him to how complicated and layered these issues are at somewhere like our embassy and our, you know, Mission Jerusalem, where it’s not only our community of U.S. staff where we have issues with diversity and inclusion. But then also our local staff, which is, you’re dealing with Palestinians, with Christians and Muslims and then Israelis and Jews and Armenians. 

So there’s so many layers. And I think to Fred’s point, while we still have a ways to go, I think we were able to put the leadership and the ambassador and expose him to all of these situations and these stark differences. I think take for example Fred, we had two different town halls, one in Tel Aviv and one in Jerusalem. And the idea was to sort of bring the local staff together, as well as the U.S. staff. And I think having the ambassador do these and the one that he did in Jerusalem was actually the morning of when Shireen Abu Akleh was killed. And having the ambassador have to sort of pivot and take a very different tone than the one that he took with the staff in Tel Aviv the day prior, and just experiencing that. We had colleagues from Gaza; our local staff from Gaza was actually in the audience that day, and she said to him, “Don’t forget about us who live and work in Gaza.” Just highlighting for him and the leadership, just how diverse the community is, not just race and color and all of that, but also where people are coming from in a place that is actually so small, but you have so many different communities. 

So we’ve made a dent, I think. And the ambassador was certainly eager, and Fred did it in an amazing job, but there’s still a ways to go. 

Loren DeJonge Schulman: So what’s really striking to me in listening to you talk about this issue and others is the really incredible depth and richness of careers that are available to people as they work at the State Department, whether in the foreign service or elsewhere, and that issues that you read about in the headlines every day are just part of the bread-butter portfolio of somebody who is working in your embassy. Whether or not they themselves are part of the headlines or not, they’re all part of that orchestra there.  

But I know that in government overall, it’s actually hard for federal agencies to recruit and retain young people. The number of employees under 30 in the federal government is really low compared to the rest of the workforce. 

But you were able to get your start fairly early in your career at the State Department. I’m curious, you know, what kind of lessons did that give you around how government might get better at this? How can they actually improve their ability to recruit and retain young people to have these incredible experiences or really high-impact experiences?  

Sam Sutton:  Frankly, I think speaking, you know, for the civil service, I think it’s very difficult to move around and particularly to have experiences overseas. I’ve been lucky. But even now I’m sort of coming up against, you know, where do you go next? And it’s very difficult to move up and then also to have different experiences. 

And I think the department has started to have some conversations about how they can make the civil service more flexible and provide more opportunities for growth. But I think that’s a real obstacle to retaining good young talent because young ambitious people don’t want to just sit in the same office in Washington for 10 years. 

You know, people want to move around and have other experiences and at present it’s difficult to do that within the civil service. So I think that’s something. 

Loren DeJonge Schulman:  Fantastic point and something that’s very consistent to what we see elsewhere across government because people come in, you’re right, not wanting to sit in one desk for the next 20 years, but also wanting to know what possibilities there are out there. So, as you are able to see that, like if I come in as a civil servant in the State Department, to know that it’s possible to go to an embassy, to go to the UN, to go to a detail, the National Security Council or elsewhere, and I think in some cases really talented people have made those paths possible. 

But it’s an aberration and not a consistency. And that’s something that all agencies need to learn from, of how do you create that flexibility as a standard and not just as an exception.  

Sam Sutton: I think that’s exactly, exactly right. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher:  So for both of you, and let’s start with Fred, what advice do you have for those who are just entering the workforce or students who are thinking about a career, either in diplomacy very broadly or specifically with the State Department? Do you have advice on what should their first step be, or are there certain resources that you found helpful? Where would you direct them? 

Frederick Wilson:  Network, network, network. This is such a complicated answer I guess, but there’s so many resources, but there’s so little time to take advantage of those resources. And if you are coming in or wanting to come in, start meeting people and understand what their path, where their path is taking them. Start understanding what you really enjoy and where the paths will connect.  

Mission Jerusalem, for me, was about networking from day one and once I started actually reaching out to civil service in D.C., once I was able to start understanding what this person does or what that person does, it made my life so much easier. There was so much more clarity. And I think that’s what people really want and need. Where’s the clarity? Where’s the upward mobility? And I think you’re only going to find that if you start having these conversations with people openly. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher:  Which is, seems to be made so much easier. You know, back couple of decades ago, LinkedIn didn’t exist. Even email for some of us didn’t exist, right? 

Frederick Wilson:  Absolutely. And it’s funny because I am seeing more traffic on LinkedIn. More government people are reaching out to me on LinkedIn saying, “How are you doing this? How are you able to do this?” And we’re starting a dialogue and that’s amazing because I don’t think I would be doing this probably five years ago. 

So, use your network however you can. If that’s, pick up the phone, send an email, or even some of the professional social media sites. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher:  And even, you know, the question was about starting the career, but I’m hearing you also like, it was part of the job that you did. And then, you know, for your job in particular, and then also for Sam going across three administrations, if you’re not networking, you’re losing your value for the incoming. And so it really strengthens things. But Sam, I’ll let you answer the same question for those who are pursuing their careers now or thinking about it. 

Sam Sutton:  Fred stole my answer. I mean, I can’t like stress that enough: relationship building and networking. And I’m not good at going up to strangers at cocktail parties and introducing myself. I like to stress to people that doesn’t have to be that.  

Rachel Klein-Kircher: That is a relief for some of us to know. 

Sam Sutton:  It’s, you know, maintaining relationships with professors or people that you meet through school events, or I always welcome people reaching out and using me as a resource. Not necessarily I’ll be able to give them a job right now, but just maintaining these relationships and over the years as well, just checking in and keeping those channels of communication open, I think is really important. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher:  We want to thank you both so much for your service, for giving us time today, and especially Sam. I know you’re calling from quite a different time zone. So, we appreciate both you and Fred, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much. 

Loren DeJonge Schulman: It’s been great. Thank you.  

Sam Sutton: Thank you. 

Transition Music 

Maggie Moore: Hi, I’m Maggie Moore from the Partnership for Public Service. After hearing from today’s guest, you hopefully learned about how important the federal government is and how incredible its employees are. 

We will recognize our nation’s top public servants through the Samuel J. Heyman Service to America Medals television special with a star-studded cast, including Ashley Nicole Black, Tony Hale, Giancarlo Esposito, and many more. 

Tune in on November 23rd at 8 pm on Bloomberg Television and the Partnership’s YouTube Channel linked in our show notes. 

Transition Music 

Loren DeJonge Schulman: So that’s our show, thanks so much for listening! If you haven’t already, please follow or subscribe to “Profiles in Public Service” wherever you get your podcasts. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher: You can also check this episode’s show notes to learn more about today’s topic, and be sure to follow the Partnership for Public Service on Twitter, LinkedIn, or Instagram to find out about future episodes!  

Loren DeJonge Schulman: “Profiles in Public Service” is created by the Partnership for Public Service.  

Rachel Klein-Kircher: Our writer and producer is Abigail Alpern Fisch. 

Loren DeJonge Schulman: Our script supervisor is Barry Goldberg. 

Rachel Klein-Kircher: And our executive producer is Jordan LaPier.  

Loren DeJonge Schulman: See you next time!